Stúff: October 2020

Hi WWW :)

I often daydream about being CEO of Orville Guitars as a sub-brand of Gibson.. with a Mexican Orville factory.. filling in the £400 to £1000 price point.. but also one in Scotland to serve Europe.. before I continue;

I want to explain something about Scotland and why it's a good place to serve Europe (Well.. once a free Scotland is back in the EU).. Scotland is a fully Westernized country, but we have had centuries of the English taking our resources and making us poorer.. so the average wage is lower in Scotland for a fully educated skilled craftsperson compared to the rest of the west.. even though Scotland has massive resources, in oil, gas and green energy, this money goes to serve the corrupt English politicians, who feed it to London and the South East of England.. for most of Scotland our standard of living is much like the Eastern Bloc countries during Russia's reign on those countries. We have good QoL vs price for value.. things are cheaper if you know where to buy.. but before this whole post gets taken up with Scottish politics.. I'll end on this one point.. Scots are born engineers..it is known the list of inventions Scots have made..

Before we continue.. Here's a relevant interjection of my another article on ESP:

My Misconceptions on ESP Guitars.. that I now think are a good idea...

Hi www

Just want this out of my head.. its just ideas and not facts .. of what I think *should* happen.. based on my misunderstanding of what *did* happen..

My thoughts..

Edwards Artists - Japan only - Building for Artists only, small elite shop, 3 to 5 people.
Edwards Professional - Japan only - Bespoke custom shop, Handmade to the customer's specs.
Edwards Engineering - Japan and US only - Limited Special Runs.
ESP - Japan, Canada, US and Mexico only - Standard models. (Explorer, Strat & Tele seem popular)
LTD - anywhere - copies of the ESP guitars and original designs.

Edwards Artists = Fender Masterbuilt Custom Shop
Edwards Professional = No equivalent, Fender has no made-to-measure service.
Edwards Engineering = Fender Custom Shop
ESP = Fender
LTD = Squier

suggested price points:

Edwards Artists = £5000-£???????
Edwards Professional = £3000-4999
Edwards Engineering = £1000-2999
ESP = £400-999
LTD = £100-399

ESP Tele's for £400

ESP Strats for £600

ESP Explorers for £800

ESP LP's for £999

Gibson 'Made To Measure' Custom Shop

So I see Gibson are providing a 'made to measure' service.. while I commend them for such efforts, the actual service badly falls short of the £5000+ price tag.

From what I gathered this service allows the order-er to choose pickups, wood and neck shape.. that last one is important, and again yes I do commend them.. buuut for £5000, this is far too little for the money..

What if.. I want a RD Artist, but I want the R7 neck to crown the body like an SG? What if I have special requirement for the electrics? Such as push-push blower and/or series/parallel..A slightly thinner body?

Or what if I have a body shape of my own? Of course it cannot be by a rival company.. but off the top of my head.. back half of a Moderne with the front half and neck of an SG.. for £5000 I *should* be able to be a mad scientist with garish taste in guitars, should I wish to be hehe.. if I have the money.. the monster created should be down to me..

If I provide a body shape that no one owns.. Gibson should offer to be guarantor copyrighter on my behalf signing a contract of 50/50 ownership, and cannot be used again unless both agree. At the time of signing I decide if it should be shared or unique.. with an option to change my mind at a later date if I pay the admin fees. If I choose share, it gets added to list of unique body shaped by original designers, that other customers can view, inc the finished product. If another person chooses to use that body shape an additional fee is added to their bill which is then passed on to the original designer.. max £200 say..if the body shape is super popular, then Gibson *could* offer to buy out the designer's 50% share. Gibson should always enforce copyright issues, such as having an established Gibson (or Epiphone) headstock shape and headstock logo. Everything else should be fluid so long as it does not conflict with any rival companies copyrights.

--Building for Artists only, small elite shop, 3 to 5 people.

Applied to Gibson

Now if we apply the above price points to Gibson.. we get:

Gibson Made to Measure Custom Shop = £4000-£???????
Gibson Crimson Shop = £3000 -3999
Gibson Custom Shop = £2000-2999
Gibson = £1000-1999
Orville = £400-999
Epiphone = £100-399

Gibson Made to Measure Custom Shop - US only- Bespoke custom shop, Handmade to the customer's specs.
Gibson Custom/Crimson Shop - US only - Limited Special Runs. Historically accurate and one offs.
Gibson - US only - Regular models.
Orville - Japan (for the Asian market), Europe (For EU), North America (For Canada, US and Mexico) only - Standard models.
Epiphone - anywhere/China/Indonesia - copies of the Gibson guitars and original Epiphone designs.

NO IMPORT TAXES, SHPPING OR DUTY FEES

A NAFTA and EU no tax agreement makes it attractive for companies to have their own foreign branch making guitars inside the walled garden.. IIRC, Japan has an agreement too with the Asian market.

The smartest way to make a guitar is to make the best possible guitar you can make, highest QC for the price and slap 10% on top of the cost of the instrument..

Orville North America (Canada, Mexico)

Colour choice would be very limited to save money. Just doing the opposite of whatever Gibson was doing.. if they do a black and a red SG Standard.. we at Orville would provide a white and blue SG Standard, this means if you didn't like the colour of the Gibsons.. buy an Orville in a colour you do like.. and if you like all the colours buy them all..
Neck shapes too.. don't like the slim taper neck? I don't either (feels super wide/thin uncomfortable).. so for the SG standard we would do a R7/MM/90s neck.. Gibson did a R7/MM/90s neck for years.. the one I know the best is on SG specials of the 90s (hence; 90s neck).. so the Orville SG Special would have the slim taper profile.. or perhaps a V profile for the weirdos out there ;) .. you know who you are!

a Melody Maker DC as an Orville entry guitar for £400

Waterslide decal + clear varnished headstock, 19 frets. one abalone dot marker on the 12th, quick drying black varnish. one colour: varnish black. wraptail. 2 Artec single coil sized HBs, 3 way switch, tone volume. (all under the scratchplate ala~ 1975 except 3 way on lower bout). Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware (would prefer 3 a side split post tuners if someone made them.. or buy a load or righty and lefty machineheads and just mix them)

a Orville SG Special for £500

Abalone Orville logo and dots. Green or Purple stain with clear quick drying varnish. 2 'Gibson Designed' HBs, usual Gibson electrics set up, 2 vol 2 tone, 3 way switch, batwing scratchplate. tailpiece and tune o'matic. Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware as above.

a Orville Les Paul Special for £599.

Abalone Orville logo and dots. Red or Orange transparent stain with clear quick drying varnish. a 'B+' mashed carved flame top, highly irregular pattern but with a medium amount of figuring. 2 'Gibson Designed' HBs, usual Gibson electrics set up, 2 vol 2 tone, 3 way switch, .tailpiece and tune o'matic. Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware as above.

a Orville SG Standard for £649

Abalone Orville & standard logo with block inlays. white binding. White or Blue poly finishes. 2 'Gibson Designed' HBs, usual Gibson electrics set up, 2 vol 2 tone, 3 way switch, side guard scratchplate.tailpiece and tune o'matic, chrome covers. Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware as above.

a Orville Les Paul Standard for £779.

Abalone Orville logo with block inlays. white binding. .Indigo or Cyan transparent poly. a 'B++' mashed carved flame cap, highly irregular pattern but with a lot of figuring. 2 'Gibson Designed' HBs, usual Gibson electrics set up, 2 vol 2 tone, 3 way switch, chrome covers. tailpiece and tune o'matic. Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware as above.

a Orville Explorer Standard for £899.

Abalone Orville logo with block inlays. 3 a-side headstock. white binding.Black- Indigo sunburst or White-Cyan sunburst transparent poly. a 'B++' mashed flame cap, highly irregular pattern but with a lot of figuring. neck that crowns the body like a SG. 2 'Gibson Designed' HBs, usual Gibson electrics set up, 2 vol 2 tone, 3 way switch, chrome covers. tailpiece and tune o'matic. Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware as above.

We wouldn't do 'Customs' at Orville.. Standard is the highest we would go. Leave that prestige for Gibson. With one exception..

a Orville RD Artist for £999.

Abalone Orville logo with block inlays & winged treble clef. white binding. .White- Indigo sunburst or Black-Cyan sunburst transparent poly.. a 'B++' mashed flame cap, highly irregular pattern but with a lot of figuring. neck that crowns the body like a SG. 2 'Gibson Designed' HBs, usual Gibson electrics set up, 2 vol 2 tone, 3 way switch, chrome covers. tailpiece and tune o'matic. Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware as above.

All fretboard would be (the cheapest hardwood) and stained black.All are R7/MM/90s necks unless otherwise stated.
Three 'ranges'

1. The 'workhorse' guitar (Melody Maker)
2. The 'player' guitar (SG and LP, Specials and Standards)
3. The little bit more.. (Explorer Std. and RD Artist)

Europe

Poland (Mayones/Fame). Italy (EKO), German (Framus), France (Vigier), Spain (?), Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Finland = Hagstrom) .. or once we rejoin the EU, Scotland.

Hagstrom & EKO no longer have factories in Europe and Framus only has a small custom shop in Germany iirc.. Orville would eventually have their own factory inside the EU, but the placement of that factory could be the former site of these companies.. and to test the market, offer contracts to any current companies and see if a profit could be made.

Orville shouldn't do body shapes that are traditionally set-necks as bolt-ons.. Gibson has plenty of bolt-ons from the 70s/80s.. maybe leave the SG's alone as far as bolt-ons are concerned. But an Orville Sonex would be fine.

I would break that down as.. £300 to make the (Sonex) guitar, £100 for retail profit to stock & sell the guitar and £40 for Gibson profit for doing pretty much nothing. So for every 10,000 (per day) guitars sold, Gibson makes £400,000 .. this also makes the guitar more affordable and so more people can buy them.

This is why, Fender are trouncing Gibson.. because Gibson is still reaching for those 'exclusive customers' and snubbing everyday blue collar money.

Slightly different line-up than above..

a Orville Sonex as an EU Orville entry guitar for £440

Waterslide decal + clear varnished headstock, 22 frets. one abalone dot marker on the 12th, quick drying black varnish. one colour: varnish black. wraptail. 2 Artec single coil sized HBs, 3 way switch, tone volume. (all under the scratchplate ala~ 1975 except 3 way on lower bout). Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware (would prefer 3 a side split post tuners if someone made them.. or buy a load or righty and lefty machineheads and just mix them)

a Orville SG Special for £500

a Orville Les Paul Special for £599.

a Orville SG Standard for £649

a Orville Les Paul Standard for £779.

a Orville Futura 'Black Beauty' Standard for £899. (6 months, Dec to June)

Abalone Orville logo with block inlays. 3 a-side headstock. white binding. Solid black with gold hardware. 2 'Gibson Designed' HBs, usual Gibson electrics set up, 2 vol 2 tone, 3 way switch, gold covers. tailpiece and tune o'matic. Sung Il or Wilkinson hardware as above.

a Orville Moderne 'Black Beauty' Standard for £899. (6 months, July to Nov)

As the North American, we wouldn't do 'Customs' at EU Orville.. Standard is the highest we would go. Leave that prestige for Gibson. With same exception as North America..

a Orville RD Artist for £999.

All fretboard would be (the cheapest hardwood) and stained black. All are R7/MM/90s necks unless otherwise stated.

Three 'ranges'

1. The 'workhorse' guitar (Sonex)
2. The 'player' guitar (SG and LP, Specials and Standards)
3. The little bit more.. (Futura/Moderne Std. and RD Artist)

Go Real or Go Home

I would have abalone inlays instead of MOP.. as Abalone is cheaper but still a 'real' material.. it's absurd to me that Gibson use fake plastics for inlays.. I just dropped a significant amount on that guitar, do I *really* want plastic inlays?? no way!! Orville would only have *real* organic inlays and nothing synthetic. Go real or go home.

Depending on what was cheapest, good options might be:

Abalone
Amber
Opal
Polished bone types (like non-endangered ivory from warthog tusks, also keratin)
Various types of narce (Ammolite, Pearl aka white abalone)
Malachite (Velvet Malachite, needs top layer of lacquer)
Turquoise (but only with a light coloured wood, like maple unstained)
Aragonite (but only with a light coloured wood, like maple unstained)

Buy in bulk at the start of the year.. then for the next year source whatever was the cheapest organic, non-synthetic inlay material, then announce the inlay material for the next year and so on..

If it was turquoise or aragonite then all fretboard would have to be a light unstained wood, such as maple. (but I would use varnish/gloss)

Bodies would be; the cheapest traditional and semi-traditional hardwoods that were available that year. Like the system above buying in bulk for that year. With a preference for poplar and ash.

It would be smart if I could do all this myself, and 100% of the profit coming to me.. Shaw Guitars, a factory in Mexico serving North America only and one in Scotland serving Europe.. wish I could .. but with my disabilities I could never do that..

peace

Dava

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R7/MM/90s neck:

For the R57 neck I have: 1st Fret: .842" Thick x 1.717" Wide 12th Fret: .949" Thick x 2.024" wide Nut Width (1.684")"

For the MM neck I have:
1st Fret: .859" Thick x 1.714" Wide 12th Fret: 1.012" Thick x 2.079" wide Nut Width (1.681")"

For the 90s neck I have:
1st Fret: .851" Thick x 1.734" Wide 12th Fret: .952" Thick x 2.098" wide Nut Width (1.687")"

My opinion: Small/Regular fingerboard width
Fat/Medium neck width
Small/Fat

Graph of comparisons:

Edwards Artists = Fender Masterbuilt Custom Shop
Edwards Professional = No equivalent, Fender has no made-to-measure service.
Edwards Engineering = Fender Custom Shop
ESP = Fender
LTD = Squier

Gibson Made to Measure Custom Shop = £4000-£???????
Gibson Crimson Shop = £3000 -3999
Gibson Custom Shop = £2000-2999
Gibson = £1000-1999
Orville = £400-999
Epiphone = £100-399

What is the Crimson Shop just now?.. its for Custom Shop limited Editions.. but I feel it would be better to offer the current Made to Measure service (no ability to change or design your own body shapes) and call that the Crimson Shop.. and level up the M2M Custom Shop to include original customer designs as outlined above.

Charge say £100 for a consultation* and if the customer asks for a .. idk other companies body shape then of course that should be a hard 'no'.. but if they want like my.. dream RD Artist.. to shift the neck so it crowns the body like a SG and pretty much nothing else special design wise, I would say £4000 is fair (its not really.. hehe.. £4000 for a guitar is crazy! flip £2000 for a guitar is crazy.. but I understand this is Gibson we are talking about here.. would I ever?.. maybe if I came into some money, as a special present.. something extra special) I digress .. the idea should *not* be how can we empty this person's wallet.. the minimum price should be £4000 and including all parts, labour, time.. an extra 10% should be added to the price. Breakdown like this: £4000 + research/translation to design time (at £50/h max 10h) + special materials (full priced + 10%).. the labour hours should be covered by the initial £4000 for the guitar, but if the customer asks for intricate work (requests hand painted Paisley instead of stencilized.. asks for zirconia inlayed into the body etc) .. then £50/h with no max, but an estimate of time given before work starts so the customer has an estimate of the final cost.. the final price cannot be more than 10% of the estimate. If the request is a pain in the rear, Gibson should just say 'no' and lose the sale. Overcharging people at these prices.. I would say is not something Gibson should endanger themselves.. unless the customer gave them the full 'I've got megabucks' go ahead.

*(which if everything falls through you get back as a voucher to buy a Gibson Guitar. no cash refunds)

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Updated 29/July/2022 for European content.

Stúff

Monday 12 October 2020

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